Thanks Huckster

I will give that ago tomorrow.

You have been extremly helpful with my situation

Adele

Sometimes contacting these helplines can prove to be a painful experience.

What I would suggest that you do is phone the Halifax Home Insurance complaints line on 0845 602 7377.

If you provide them with the previous owners Insurance details or their name/address and then explain the situation, they should be able to help you. What I would expect them to do is ask for you to provide a copy of the structural engineers report confirming the subsidence issues and when the problem started. The Halifax should then arrange with you to issue you with a policy and then to register the claim. The Halifax will then appoint their own loss adjuster to handle the claim.

If you point to the Association of British Insurers Subsidence agreement, they should be aware of this.

If the Halifax complaints team prove to be just as unhelpful, ask to speak to the customer service or custromer relations manager.

Huckster

Hi

I have been able to contact the previous owners insurance company which is the Halifax and they told me today that they don't think they are liable cos they say that cos we are not and have never been a customer of theres the ABI Agreement doesn't apply. They also said that they think the valuer should have picked it up.

According to everything that you have told me and what I have read this sounds like a load of rubbish and is there way of trying to get out of the responsibility of paying.

I am going to phone my insurance company tomorrow cos they said that I had to phone the vendors insurance and place a claim. Should my insurance company be the one contacting the Halifax?

Is there anything else that you can advise me on to do.

Thanks

Adele

Was the strutural engineer appointed by the Insurance company or yourself?

When I mentioned second opinion, the was purely on the basis that if the Insurance company are going to have to provide a large cheque to buy another property somewhere else, they might want to reassure themselves, that they need to do this. If another house cannot be built on the existing site, the value of the land is going to be reduced. This reduction is going to increase the value of loss to the Insurance company.

Huckster

I have asked about the safety of the house as we have a 2 year old and they said that it is safe.

The structual engineer has got a business partner and he came round today and they both agree with each other. Would this count as a second opinion?

One of the neighbours who heard about the vendor asking the builders advice about subsidance has since moved so I have asked the estate agents who sold that house to contact them to see if they would be willing to do a written statement for us.

Adele

You may have a long road ahead. I have only had brief exposure to such cases as they are usually put in the hands of senior managers of the Insurance company and their legal department. The same will the case with the mortgage company, as legal action could be taken against the seller of the property. Also legal proceedings could be started against the developers of the new houses next door, if this is the cause of the problem.

It will help you, if you can obtain any information from neighbours and builder you mentioned, so your solicitor can look into this matter.

Your immediate concern, must be the safety of your family. Is the house safe to live in? Did the structural engineer mention any concerns about this. For peace of mind, you should get some assurance, that for the time being, the house is safe.

As I said before, I expect another structural engineers opinion will be obtained and then the Insurance company will decide on the next step. The mortgage company will obviously have interest in this, so they will no doubt have to be consulted.

What you don't want to happen is that you end up stuck in the house, while all the legal arguments are ongoing. This could takes many months or even years. You should therefore be looking to Insurers to help you first and to deal with the legal stuff as a separate ongoing issue.

Huckster

We have said that with our next house we will be having the full blown survey, we will vist the house 10 times before we exchange and we are going to take a spirt level and probably some other members of our family with us.

As you say we will learn from this is.

I just find it sickening that someone can do this to a young family.

I have spoken to my solictor and she has told me to obtain as much evidence against the vendors as I can so I am going to ask the neighbours to write a statement about them and what if anything they have said about the subsidence.

Have you ever delat with anything like this before? How long would it take before we could look for another house?

Adele

I feel gutted for you.

If I were in your position, I would not contact the previous owner again. Leave it to your solicitors. The Insurance and Mortgage company may well look to take legal action against the previous owner and your solicitor can advise you of what the best course of action would be. I would not want to be in the shoes of the previous owner.

If you think about this logically, you are taking responsibility for something the last owner should have dealt with. Had they reported this to their Insurance company, they would have had the hassle of the situation and not you.The Insurance company would have appointed loss adjusters/structural engineers and if the property was found to be a 'write off', they would have had to move. Now you are in the sellers shoes and are expected to have to deal with the situation, using the sellers previous insurance arrangement.

Had you or your mortgage company known about this, you would not have purchased it. Is there any legal precedent for the sale and purchase to be made 'null and void' on the basis of the seller not revealing information?

This really is a lesson to anyone. Do not rely on a basic mortgage valuation when buying a property. Always opt for a full survey which may have found the problem.

Huckster

The structual engineer said that it was not worth rebuilding cos there is a problem with the land and not just the house so he thinks that it will just happen again with a new house.

We have also found out that the previous owners told a builder over the road that he thinks the house has subsidence. So we are hoping that the builder will write a letter to this so that I can take it to me solictor cos the vendor told his solictor that he didn't know that there was anything wrong with the house.

So much for a new house new start.

Thank you for all your advice with this matter.

adele bedford:

We have had a structual engineer round and he thinks that the house is beyond repair and that the best thing that can happen is for the insurance company and mortgage company to write the house off.

What does this involve?

Are you saying 'beyond repair' as in, the property needs to be knocked down? Did the engineer confirm the exact cause, Subsidence, ground heave or landslip?

If so the structural engineers report will need to be submitted to the Insurers and the mortgage company, so that they can decide the way forward. Both the Insurance and mortgage company may opt to obtain another opinion before they act.

If the Insurers ( the sellers previous company) agree to deal with the claim, they will arrange to cover the cost of the demolition, land clearance, other fees and the rebuilding of the house. They will also cover renting you another property while the works take place. The Insurers loss adjuster will explain the process to you. I presume in the meantime you would need to keep up the mortgage payments.

In the background I would fully expect the Insurance company to enter into litigation with the developer of the nearby properties, if they believe they have a chance of making a legal case to recover their outlay. This will not affect you but you should take an interest in this, if it is possible at the relevant time to ask the court to consider an award of compensation to you. You could end up in rented accommodation for 6 months while your house is rebuilt.

In the event that the house cannot be rebuilt on the same site, I believe the Insurers would look to make a settlement to enable another house to be purchased. This is not something that happens very often.

I think you should prepare yourself for quite a lot of hassle over the next few months. But on the positive side, you could end up with a brand new house that may be covered by NHBC.

Huckster

We have had a structual engineer round and he thinks that the house is beyond repair and that the best thing that can happen is for the insurance company and mortgage company to write the house off.

What does this involve?

adele bedford:

There has been 2 new house built next door, would that have anything to do with the house cos they are on the side that it is sinking.

I have contacted the previous owners who have told me who they were with but are unable to find the policy number. Will my insurance company be able to contact their insurance company directly and talk to them about the problem with no policy number?

Also as you walk round the outside of the house so you can see where it has sunk compared to all the paths leading up to the house. Should the surveyor have noticed this, even if it was a basic survey?

Yes the building of houses nearby can cause a problems, particularly if the houses are situated on a slopping site anyway. Sometimes before houses are built, consultation letters are sent by the local authority to neighbours, advising them of the buildings and possible issues. I once dealt with a case where a small development was being planned and the neighbours insisted on the local authority obtaining assurances from the developer. From memory the building of the houses on the land was assessed by a surveyor/structural engineer as being a possible issue for neighbouring properties. i.e. they could cause the land to become unstable. The developers were forced into taking measures to stabilise the site, before they were able to build on it.

Your Insurance company may be able to obtain the policy number. If not you will have to ask the previous owners to find this out and call you back.

The surveyor should have conducted a good visual check of the property and its grounds. I am not qualifed to give an opinion of whether under a basic survey this should have been noted. If the property is mortgaged, they may be willing to take a look into this and arrange another survey. They should be interested if they part own the property.

I would not be surprised if the previous owner knows a lot more about this issue, than you will ever get them to admit.

Huckster

There has been 2 new house built next door, would that have anything to do with the house cos they are on the side that it is sinking.

I have contacted the previous owners who have told me who they were with but are unable to find the policy number. Will my insurance company be able to contact their insurance company directly and talk to them about the problem with no policy number?

Also as you walk round the outside of the house so you can see where it has sunk compared to all the paths leading up to the house. Should the surveyor have noticed this, even if it was a basic survey?

Adele

Removing trees can cause problems, possibly ground heave. Ground heave would be covered under the policy the vendors had in force. The loss adjuster once appointed will explain the process, if this is the problem.

Heave is the expansion of the ground beneath part or all of the building. This is normally taken to mean an upward movement of the site caused by expansion or swelling of the subsoil (or the opposite to subsidence). The most common cause of heave is removal of trees and other vegetation, causing the clay subsoil to re-wet and swell.

I think you will have to wait until the issue is fully investigated. It may be decided to leave the property to settle if there is some movement but no visable cracks.

Huckster

Thanks for your replys.

All we could afford to have done was the mortgage survey which didn't show anything but all they do is say if is worth the money, so no luck there.

I have got the phone number of the previous owners so I will give them a ring today to see who they were insured with.

There are 8 tree stumps at the front of the house so we are guessing that these were probably part of the problem, I have no idea when they were cut down. No extensions on the house. No cracks on the inside or outside of the house and as far as I am aware the drains are fine.

Thanks again.

Adele