Thanks, would I have to do that, or could I send a copy of the agreement the PPI dept. sent me and ask them if this IS my agreement? Maybe they class that as them sending it even though it was in relation to something else.

upferret:Thanks, would I have to do that, or could I send a copy of the agreement the PPI dept. sent me and ask them if this IS my agreement? Maybe they class that as them sending it even though it was in relation to something else.

You could ask the OC to confirm that is the only agreement they have, but they probably won't respond as the request would have no legal weight. They haven't responded to your legal request have they?

I would still recommend the SAR.

In the meantime you can hold off any possible legal action by both the OC and DCAs by reminding them they are in default of s.78 plus of course you could explain that what you've been sent by the PPI people as an agreement is a joke (on them).

Im not worried about legal action at the moment as Im still paying the minimum amount. They havent responded to my request(apart from to tell me I needed to sign the letter) , and they dont seem to be taking any notice of the default I placed them in as they are still adding interest to the account. could you please point me to where can I find the information I need for the SAR then? thanks very much

Hi,

This is an extract from a publication from the information comissioners office. I tried to post a link but the site is down at the moment

Your Legal Responsibility

What is a Subject Access Request?

This is a request from a person asking an organisation to provide them with copies of the information relating to that person which is held by the organisation.

What law gives this right and governs how we respond to such a request?

Section 5 of the Data Protection Act 2002 (‘the Act’) gives individuals the legal right to request copies of the information held about them, together with a description of the purposes for which information is, or has been, processed and to whom the information can be, or has been, disclosed.
It is your legal obligation to comply with a Subject Access Request in accordance with the Act.
Failure to comply could result in compensation being sought by the person, together with a fine of up to £5000

What will a Subject Access Request look like?

The law simply states that the request must be made ‘in writing’ which includes a request received by email.
There is no standard format for this request and it does not need to mention the Data Protection Act. A request may be worded in different ways, and could be as simple as ‘Please provide me with copies of all the information you hold about me.’
It is important that you and your staff are able to recognise when a Subject Access Request (SAR) is being made.

Who can make a SAR?

A request is normally made by the person to whom the information relates.
A parent, or guardian, who has joint, or sole, parental responsibility can make a request on behalf of their child, though this is dependent upon the age and maturity of the child.
A third party acting on behalf of the person may also make a request.
If the request is made by any party other than the person, evidence is needed to prove they are authorised to request, and receive, this information.
In the case of an Advocate or a MHK, a letter naming the individual and stating that they are acting on behalf of that individual can be accepted. However, if you feel uncertain about disclosing information, checks should be made.

When do I have to do reply to the SAR?

You should acknowledge receipt of the request in a letter immediately.
To comply with the law you must provide the information requested promptly and in any event within 40 calendar days.

What details can they request?

Copies of computerised records, opinions regarding them, intentions of the organisation regarding them and also any details held in a relevant filing system may be requested.

Can I charge them for this request and, if so, how much?

Yes, you may charge a fee up to the maximum of £10 per request, or up to £50 for health records. No additional fees can be levied in respect of administration or copying costs etc.
If you charge a fee, you should obtain this before commencing the SAR.

Hope this helps.

Its a .pdf, if you want it all then send me an email. Address in in my profile - click my username to left of this post

S

Thanks that does help, Ill email you now.

Hi again. I sent the SAR the other day, meanwhile today they have replied to the CCA request, with the follwing-

-A letter basically saying they can leave signatures out ect.

-A blank application form

-Photocopies of some terms and conditions from the time I signed up

-Photocopies of two leaflets

-A recent statement signed by someone at the bank.

I'm guessing this doesnt change anyting and I still need to wait for the SAR to come back?

Thanks.

upferret:

Hi again. I sent the SAR the other day, meanwhile today they have replied to the CCA request, with the follwing-

-A letter basically saying they can leave signatures out ect.

-A blank application form

-Photocopies of some terms and conditions from the time I signed up

-Photocopies of two leaflets

-A recent statement signed by someone at the bank.

I'm guessing this doesnt change anyting and I still need to wait for the SAR to come back?

Thanks.

This would seem to put you in a VERY strong position to challenge the agreement. Basically an unsigned application might just as well be a blank piece of paper. No way enforceable.

You could very well dispute the agreement sent (because it ISN'T an agreement) but just to be safe before taking any decisive action wait for the SAR.

Edit: Your next action (assuming the SAR doesn't bring an enforceable agreement) would be to write to HSBC and tell them that without a properly executed credit agreement there is no agreement to make repayments. Then stop your payments. Next move is then up to them.

If all they have is what they have already sent (i.e. nothing at all basically) you could threaten legal action if they continue to enforce with threat letters, DCAs, defaults, threat of court etc. With what you have got up to now it would be a simple matter (relatively) to get it declared unenforceable.

Beware though there are pre-action protocols to be aware of. If these aren't followed it could weaken your case. In effect you are required to let HSBC know your complaint and what you want them to do about it and maybe offer to negotiate a solution (in the first instance to write the debt off).

You have to remember the courts are there to resolve disputes where every avenue to resolve out of court have failed.

One thing to think about is WHY you are doing this. I know you want to get rid of the debt and I am not trying to be holier than thou (I'm doing exactly the same as you with 3 CCCs), but if a judge asks why you didn't tell HSBC you were struggling and try and arrange a repayment plan, what are you going to say? "Oh I'm just trying to wriggle out of repaying my debts".

OK in your case it would seem a judge couldn't enforce the debt even if he wanted to (see CC Act 1974 s.127(3)), but it might make for an uncomfortable hearing!!

I understand what youre saying, and Ive never missed a payment so far and havent used the card for ages to buy anything. The reason Im doing it is because I had to leave my job because of a disability,which worsened, which wasnt covered by the PPI I was paying as it was a pre existing condition, so it would be a great weight off my shoulders and would help my condition get better as the stress from worrying about it makes my condition worse. I dont know what the judge would think of that but thats just the truth! and Ive got medical proof to back it up if theyre interested. What I would like to know is why theyve sent a current blank application form, when its bears no resemblence to the actual agreement? They said theyre alllowed to leave out signatures and stuff, but its nothing like it! They obviously dont know that the PPI dept sent me a copy of the signed agreement. Thanks for the help, Ill keep you posted as to what the SAR brings!

Ok got the S.A.R this morning and there's no credit agreement in it!, so where do I stand now?

Thanks

But you got the agreement from the PPI dept, did I read that right?

Is it enforcible?

S

upferret:

Ok got the S.A.R this morning and there's no credit agreement in it!, so where do I stand now?

Thanks

OK I assume you got nothing more than what you got from your CCA request. No signed document with credit limit, interest rate etc?

If so start rubbing your hands!!

It gets a little complicated from here on in, but it can be fun. First off send them a letter explaining they have not provided a valid credit agreement for the account. Consequently they cannot pursue the debt and you are not obliged to make any more repayments. Insist they reduce your debt balance to zero. They should also cease processing subject data to the credit reference agencies. There is also the issue of return of mis-sold PPI payments (+ interest) which I have no experience of, so someone else should help with that.

Give them 14 daye to reply and in the meantime start preparing your 'letter before action' (LBA). This is a formal letter explaining all your legal arguments why they should mark the account closed and satisfied and return all PPI premiums. It is a part of the pre-action protocol you should follow according to court procedures.

I'm sure Stubie will be along to provide a humdinger letter for you.

WAIT,

What is the agreement you got.

If they've got one, even if they didn't produce it in response to a s78 or SAR.

They can still produce it in court. If it is enforcible then you will collect costs etc.

We should cover all bases before we rush to the next stage. There is time before we need to proceed so we should use it wisely.

What is the agreement you got from the PPI department? This is critically important now.

S

Stubie-One:

WAIT,

What is the agreement you got.

If they've got one, even if they didn't produce it in response to a s78 or SAR.

They can still produce it in court. If it is enforcible then you will collect costs etc.

We should cover all bases before we rush to the next stage. There is time before we need to proceed so we should use it wisely.

What is the agreement you got from the PPI department? This is critically important now.

S

Stubie

See upferret's post a few up from here.

They replied to his CCA request with a blank application and T&Cs etc .. no agreement signed or not. They are bound under 172(1). The SAR reply should have confirmed this.

upferret:

I understand what youre saying, and Ive never missed a payment so far and havent used the card for ages to buy anything. The reason Im doing it is because I had to leave my job because of a disability,which worsened, which wasnt covered by the PPI I was paying as it was a pre existing condition, so it would be a great weight off my shoulders and would help my condition get better as the stress from worrying about it makes my condition worse. I dont know what the judge would think of that but thats just the truth! and Ive got medical proof to back it up if theyre interested. What I would like to know is why theyve sent a current blank application form, when its bears no resemblence to the actual agreement? They said theyre alllowed to leave out signatures and stuff, but its nothing like it! They obviously dont know that the PPI dept sent me a copy of the signed agreement. Thanks for the help, Ill keep you posted as to what the SAR brings!

Its this bit that concerns me, I have to know what this "agreement" is.

S