menvor:

Thanks basa, you've taken a weight off :)

I was just wondering though, do I still send that letter you've just drafted to them if I've just sent the previous one stating that they haven't supplied the true copy and giving them 14 days to respond? I sent that on Saturday. This new letter is from some legal services place. Sorry to seem dim, I'm just not sure what I need to do and I want to be sure before I send anything.

mennie :)

OK I wasn't sure who was hassling you.

Write to the 'legal services' scumpany (sic) explaining you are still awaiting a reply to your request for the credit agreement for this account and that whilst it is oustanding the original credit company is in default of CCA 1974 s.78(6).

In consequence they should not have passed the disputed debt for collection and it should be referred back to the original creditor for clarification.

In the meantime until the legal services scumpany can provide a legal entitlement to demand payment you are not obliged to respond or make arrangements for payment.

Keep it short and sweet and don't go into detail.

Thanks so much, you two :)

I'll get that letter off to the legal place tomorrow and await a reply from the ccc about my second request for the true copy. I'm guessing that's the correct way to go.

Have a great day,

mennie :)

menvor:

Thanks so much, you two :)

I'll get that letter off to the legal place tomorrow and await a reply from the ccc about my second request for the true copy. I'm guessing that's the correct way to go.

Have a great day,

mennie :)

Absolutely. I would further guess that the CCC has not got a properly executed agreement to send you.

It's a bit like a game of tennis from here on!!

First off unless either the original creditor advises you otherwise or a DCA sends a letter of assignment (of the debt to them) you are dealing only with the original creditor. Any one else who writes should get the letter (or something like) I suggested above.

Two choices from now on. Let them bluff and bluster and beg for money until they start a court action (which I doubt they will as I believe you have an absolute defence). Or take the fight to them with court action (which is tricky negotiating court procedures and expensive with court fess - although if you win you will get awarded back).

Let us know what you get from anyone.

Edit: As a matter of interest I just heard I have been awarded damages and costs against a creditor. (Bit of a no brainer as they had admitted in writing they have no credit agreement). Result so far notheless.

I doubt they'll cough up and I'll be chasing warrants etc.

Sorry, I have no idea what happened there :s Here is the post I wanted to make:

Hey,

I just thought I would show you what I'm going to send to the legal dept, to see if it needs any edits or whatever. Actually, I would like to add that I want them to remove my number from their database and not to phone or door call. Can I add that in here?

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account No. **** IN DISPUTE

I am in receipt of your letter dated ****

This account is in dispute and any actions by you are in breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines and also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

As CCC are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act agreement request and have also breached s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in serious dispute. As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is not permitted. Under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be regarded as both unlawful and vexatious.

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to CCC for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as your company cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities. If you choose to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

After taking advice, I believe that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

me

Thanks,

mennie :)

PS well done on the damages award :)

menvor:

Pardon !!?? LOL

Sorry, hehe. I don't know what happened there at all. And it's still in my newer post which, I might add, is more in need of you looking over and checking the letter than laughing at my incompetence! Tsk tsk tsk. Hehe :p

menvor:

Sorry, I have no idea what happened there :s Here is the post I wanted to make:

Hey,

I just thought I would show you what I'm going to send to the legal dept, to see if it needs any edits or whatever. Actually, I would like to add that I want them to remove my number from their database and not to phone or door call. Can I add that in here?

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account No. **** IN DISPUTE

I am in receipt of your letter dated ****

This account is in dispute and any actions by you are in breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines and also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

As CCC are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act agreement request and have also breached s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in serious dispute. As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is not permitted. Under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be regarded as both unlawful and vexatious.

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to CCC for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as your company cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities. If you choose to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

After taking advice, I believe that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

me

Thanks,

mennie :)

That stuff happens to me all the time, usually when I've just spent half an hour writing and I lose the lot !!

Anyway, the letter looks good to me, except I wouldn't bother talking legal action to DCAs, they are beneath the time wasted (unless the have bought the debt outright).

You should tuck the comment about telephone numbers and doorstep calls in after the paragraph about "(legal action) ..as unlawful and vexatious".

Good to go m8.

Brilliant! Thanks loads basa. I'll get that sent off tomorrow. So, if I'm not on here over the next couple of days, have a great weekend!

mennie :)

U 2, enjoy your weekend, relax and forget debts!!

Hi again,

Hope the weekend was good. So, here I have the latest in from the legal services crowd - a letter in on Monday. I guess it's possible that they had sent this letter on the same day they got my last one so maybe the dates crossed?

Unless you call us immediately we will consider taking further action.

Despite our attempts to help you repay your credit card debt you have failed to take any action to either deal with the debt or call us. This leaves no alternative but to consider our next steps to recover this outstanding debt. This may include passing on or selling the account to nd external DCA who may pursue this debt through the County Court. We don't want to take this action and the only person who can prevent this at such a late stage is you. You must call us immediately.

It is important you underrstand what it means if a debt is pursued through the courts.

If court proceedings are issued you would be responsible for paying any court costs and solicitors fees. And if a CCJ is passed the following may happen:

1. Your employer requested to make regualar deductions from your wages until the debt is cleared.

2. An order for you to attend court and provide information about your financial situation.

This is your last chance. Do not put off calling us any longer.

Any ideas where I go from here? Thanks,

mennie :)

Mennie

Consider and may are the key words I think. Empty threats to worry you into making contact. Just keep to the previous advice from Basa. They probably have not dealt with your last letter yet.

Huckster

Agreed, just ignore the empty threats.

May, consider, if, etc ....... pah!

Wouldn't you just love to write back ... "Are you feeling lucky? Well are you? Go for it sucker!!" (that's not a suggestion!).

Edit: I'm thinking of papering my garage with all the threat letters and late payment notices I've received!!

These guys really grind you down, don't they! I'm not far behind you with the wallpaper. I got this in from the credit card company yesterday. This is in response to my request for a copy of the 'signed' agreement after they had sent out a copy which dfidn't have any signature box etc....

Where should I go from here?

Thanks,

mennie :)

Thank you for your request to provide a true copy of your credit agreement.

As previously explained, in accordance with s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices And Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, we have provided you with a copy of your original agreement, and if any terms have been varied, the copy agreement will include the updated terms. Additionally, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature were omitted from the copy provided as permitted under Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices And Copy Documents) Regulations 1983.

Your account remains behind with payments and defaulted. It is important you maintain payments as your balance consists of transactions that YOU have made. Failure to do this may result in negative information being recorded on your credit file. This may affect your ability to obtain credit in the future.

We will continue to pursue this outstanding debt and will defend any application you may wish to bring against us.

In addition, financial regulations require me to advise you that this is our final response in relation to this matter.

Try hacking around something like this:

Ref: Account # xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx - IN DISPUTE

I am in receipt of your letter of **/**/09 and its enclosures.

I have to point out that, whilst you may have complied with my request pursuant to s78 and even considering the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices & Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 with omission of any signatures or date of signatures, the document you have provided as an alleged agreement does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 61(1) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 6 in that not all the ‘prescribed terms’ are contained within the document, inter alia:

[Insert details of non compliance]

You should note that in the opinion of the Office of Fair Trading, creditors should not suggest that they have a signed compliant credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this – to do so could be a ‘misleading action’ under Reg.5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

In that respect I draw your attention to Consumer Credit Act 1974 s127(3): The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with.

It is the lack of a properly executed agreement that is a very clear default, not necessarily your response to my s78 request and it is for these reasons that I DISPUTE the alleged agreement and I do not acknowledge any debt to your company. Until such time as you can demonstrate a legal entitlement to request payment I am not obliged to offer any payments to this account.

I would be happy for you contact me in writing with your intentions to resolve this matter, which remains a formal complaint. In the absence of a signed compliant credit agreement, I would again invite you to consider reducing any alleged debt to £0 and enter a ‘full and final settlement’ as discharged on the alleged account and with any third parties, or contact me further to agree a mutually acceptable resolution.

I would ask you to note that I will not enter into any communication regarding this matter except in writing by post. I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit of communication other than the manner I have respectfully requested may be in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching the OFT Collection Guidelines.

To sum up, I am not obliged to make any further payments to you until you provide me with a copy of a properly executed agreement. Should you not have a properly executed agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me. If you do have a properly executed agreement there is no reason why you should not allow me sight of it in order to resolve this dispute.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and I look forward to your reply in the first instance but definitely within 14 days from receipt of this letter.

Hmmm, I'm kind of lost on this one :/

I have no idea what to put in the [insert details of non compliance] part, since I think all the terms were included in the agreement COPY that they sent. The only thing not there, I think, was any part showing or even mentioning a signature or date of signature or signature box. Any ideas?

I also got another 2 calls yesterday from the legal services people, despite having sent them that last letter stating that the a/c was in dispute and I would ONLY correspond with them in writing. Can they still call despite that letter?

Thanks,

mennie :)